Singapore Airlines Owns Air Canada - Behind R4NT

Singapore Airlines Owns Air Canada

MaxPower November 23rd, 2006

First Class

Holy!

Business Class

Freakin Economy Class

Man Air Canada sucks.

99 Responses to “Singapore Airlines Owns Air Canada”

D4V: November 23rd, 2006 at 8:04 am
I’ve always wondered how this airline can always been at the top of it’s class…

..When Air Canada is still flying international planes with broken 1970’s TV sets ratteling from the isles.

Is Canada not a rich country?
So-CoAddict: November 23rd, 2006 at 8:36 am
It is, but it is also a greedy one. Go figure.
MaxPower: November 23rd, 2006 at 1:18 pm
That’s a 23 inch LCD screen there kids. FOR YOU.

Air Canada, may we please have a pillow and blanket? it is so cold at 36,000 ft.

No! No blanket for you. Five bucks.

No TV either – watch these 16 inch CRT screens manufactured in China in 1972, which are fuzzy and colour distorted.

I talked to a guy from England yesterday in a meeting – his first experience on Air Canada was on a Vancouver/Toronto flight. His comment – unprompted – “The planes are kind of tatty aren’t they? A bit like flying in the 70s.”

Right on man. Right on.
MacLeod: November 23rd, 2006 at 4:26 pm
It’s not just Singapore. Pretty well every Asian airline seems to have it on Air Canada. They absolutely live for service. I flew Malaysian Air to Kuala Lumpur last summer and was blindsided by how comfy it was, not to mention how friendly the staff were. Korean Air, Asiana, Air China, Thai Airways, it’s all the same. Come to think of it, every airline I’ve flown outside of Canada/US has been great compared to the shit we’re forced to fly back home. I’d be more than happy to never fly Air Canada again. Stupid fucking monopoly.
D4V: November 23rd, 2006 at 4:36 pm
Since we’re full on Air Canada bashing (does this ever get old?)…

It never ceases to amaze me how much the Canadian Government will help Air Canada stay in business.. For the love of god. Let it die!

And sader still.. I’ve recently been hearing that flights are cheaper with Air Canada versus West Jet now. What the hell is going on?

Then again I guess the majority of airlines are all operating in debt. Why? Oil?

Bring back Canadian Airlines. ;)
D4V: November 23rd, 2006 at 4:37 pm
Side note.. I am speaking exclusively in phrases from now on. heh.
So-CoAddict: November 23rd, 2006 at 5:08 pm
Air Canada having lower prices than West Jet has been something that I too have noticed, as I occasionally check flights from Calgary to Ottawa/Toronto.

The best flight I can recall ever being on was a KLM flight to Amsterdam. I had salmon for a meal (which to this day I vow was one of the best meals I have ever had) and watched movies on a large projection screen. I have never experienced anything even close since then. That was back in ‘96 too.
MacLeod: November 24th, 2006 at 12:23 am
A buddy of mine was flying from San Francisco to Seoul on Singapore Air. His flight was delayed for a couple hours so they loaded the passengers on some buses and took them to a buffet restaurant. Why North American airlines don’t understand the importance of customer service of the above-and-beyond variety is beyond me.
MaxPower: November 24th, 2006 at 7:32 am
Oil isn’t causing airlines financial problems – anyone notice how all of the airlines jacked up the “fuel surcharge” when oil went 70+ and now that its sub 60 those surcharges are still there?

The thing that is causing problems is the high cost structure of the labour forces, caused mainly by unions. Point in case – Air Canada’s flight attendants have to be the OLDEST in the freakin world. They are all 40 – 50 yr olds who have been doing this for 20+ years. They got seniority and when AC/Canadian merged they all stuck around. Since they have contractual pay increases every year, well 20 years of decent bumps in salary means they are making WAY more than the cheap and cheerful 18 year olds which do the same job in Europe. Oh, but you don’t want 18 year olds in case there is an emergency you say? Look dude, if the plane is crashing I’m putting pretty slim odds on me living period, and even slimmer odds on the flight attendants doing something which would SAVE me.

I don’t know what is up with WJ charging a higher fare, the only thing I can think of is they are comfortable in their duopoly status. The prices are still insane in Canada though. I wanted to go Toronto – New York for a weekend. Air Canada out of Pearson, $455 return, US Airways out of Buffalo, $165 return (Canadian!). AND since US Airways is a “Star Alliance” member I got full aeroplan miles which I wouldn’t have gotten at all if I took the “cheap” Air Canada fare.

And finally to D4Vs “doesn’t this get old question” – it’ll get old when Air Canada stops sucking so bad. Although I have to say, I agree with MacLeod’s posts above, I think it is more North American shitty service issues than stuff which is systemic to Air Canada.

OH! And if anyone remembers my first Air Canada sucks article on R4NT in 2001, I said they told me the seat back TVs would be installed in their A330s within the year. Yeah, 6 years later. No dice.
Grfxguy: November 30th, 2006 at 3:32 pm
Remember West Jet hacking into AC’s computer billing system? One of the bargaining deals was that Westjet’s prices would be somewhat monitored by AC for a bit. AC took an opportunity to lower prices.

The other reason, really, is supply and demand. More people demand Westjet because the service is better, therefore it will cost more.
GDAC: June 1st, 2007 at 3:01 pm
Since you guys are on about bashing Air Canada…

IF you lived in Canada, you would know that it is an equal-rights country. AKA, no racism and/or profiling…unlike Asian countries.

1. Asian countries can hire age groups they want, aka 21-35; they can hire only females; and they can hire on looks. Canada (and the rest on North America and developed Europe), hire based on skill, equality, and right.

2. Developed countires with regards to company equality also have unions. Unions protect employees from being fired at the age of 36 (like your Asian airlines) and from being fired becuase you get married or get pregnant (like Asian airlines).

3. Unlike Asian Airlines, AIr Canada is a privately owned airline. That means that they get their own profits and are not supported by the governments. (Although some people may want to believe that the government keeps supporting the airline – you go ahead and keep thinking that)

4. I am an airline employee, but from the perspective of a passenger, they would rather pay a cheaper fare than pay more for comfort. Trust me, studeies have proven this and thats how decisions are made to lower fares instead of having huge seties on an airplane.

…just my two cents…
GDAC: June 1st, 2007 at 3:06 pm
And to quote MaxPower on saying,
“if the plane is crashing I‚Äôm putting pretty slim odds on me living period, and even slimmer odds on the flight attendants doing something which would SAVE me.”

Well MaxPower, you tell me what you would do if:
- there was a fire on an airplane, (an aluminum tube hurtling thru open skies over the Atlantic),
- passengers started fighting and jeopardizing the safety of your 300 plus passengers
- a woman started chocking on her food or her kid stopped breathing
- your plane did a crash landing on land and you had a door in front of you that wouldnt open due to a tree on the other side of it
- your flight attendants ran away and you wanted a glass of water. you would keep dinging until you got one?

Message to all you posting up on here, get some good background information and base your statements on something because its hillarious.
Grfxguy: June 3rd, 2007 at 9:55 pm
Dude, we ARE all Canadian. I’m a fifth generation. Responses to your “points”:

1. Air Canada *is* privately owned, but received and continues to receive government subsidies and backing.

2. Sure Western countries attempt to hire on skill, but tell me that certain service industries don’t hire based on looks.

3. We’re talking about spending more money on tickets for the good service: West Jet is rarely cheaper than AC anymore, but I’d still rather the WJ service and the little TV’s in the seats.

4. MaxPower is suggesting that, in an emergency situation like the plane crashing, having experienced flight attendants would mean jack squat because, really, what can they do anyways? The plane’s freaking crashing. And I have a feeling that somebody with twenty years on the job or two years on the job has an equal chance of panicking at an inferno over the Atlantic.

Perhaps you should take part in a debate the proper way, by offering up facts with your opinion in a way that doesn’t make you seem like a complete jackass.
GDAC: June 15th, 2007 at 1:35 am
Post geared to Grfxguy’s response:

1. Air Canada received money from the government…past tense. You say that it’s continuing? Mate, lets see the facts.

2. Western Companies hire on looks…its factual. Trust me – if given the chance by the government, AC would make stringent rules based on looks. In the past they used to measure body fat and such. But today, being 2007, they cannot just have two sizes in uniforms (like Asian airlines – I believe its Singapore or Air China, they have size zero, and one – and if you do not fit into these, you don’t have a job). They also expect you to leave at 35, cannot be pregnant, and they pay such low wages. No union representation, no proper working standards (another thing is that the most junior flight attendant has to wait until all the senior ones have eaten before they can touch food). You go flying on a domestic flight on AC and you will see the service on a flight with younger FAs. The senior FAs are on the long haul routes, again, by seniority. And we are not there for customer service, mate, we’re there for service.

3. Air Canada does have TVs in their seats…and with regards to putting money back into the planes, it takes time to upgrade 300+ planes, it cannot be done overnight…its done with a schedule that does not disturb daily operations. Also, there are new planes…the Embraer aircraft, the 777s…the 787s that are coming in…

4. what would happen if there were no FAs and there was a crash? They would hit their heads cause your FA would not be there to tell you to brace. Humans basic instinct is to look up and see whats going on. Then, you would not know when to open a door…and would do it asap and the engines would still be turning and you would get sucked into it…. If you are still alive, and two of the front doors were blocked by debris and you had to make ur way to the back in a smokey cabin, the lights at the bottom would not be on as your FA would not be there to turn them on and you dont know where they are located. You ge tto the back somewhow and open the door. The door opens but the slide doesnt inflate becuase the mechanism was destroyed in a hard landing. Hmm…would you then know what to do? Probably not.

You call me a jackass and say I don;t participate in the debate the proper way. What a contradictory statement. A proper way, Grfxguy, to debate would be by using actual facts, rather than biased information from your little brain. But then again, what do I know right? I get paid for a job thats not needed…hah. Makes you why every airline in the world cannot take off without a proper number of flight attendants on board.
MaxPower: June 15th, 2007 at 5:47 am
Ha, must of hit a nerve.

Air Canada has come *some* way vs. international competition, in particular it has differentiated itself from US airlines (mainly to the better), however, the underlying fact remains, Air Canada is woefully inadequate in terms of service and quality of equipment when compared to European and especially Asian airlines.

I can’t help you work for Air Canada.
MacLeod: June 15th, 2007 at 6:08 am
Air Canada has a union. Big fucking deal. Could it be unionized complacency that stops our “national airline” from ever landing or taking off on time? Seriously, how hard is it to follow the schedule you’ve set for yourself??

I couldn’t care less about unions, I couldn’t care less about fair hiring practices. I care about affordable flights that arrive on time and staff that treats me well. The cabin crew on every Asian airline I’ve flown has been top-notch, not like the grizzled crones who work the AC long-haul flights. “Here’s your water. Now eat my unionized shit.”
Grfxguy: June 15th, 2007 at 9:13 am
You started it, mate. I personally think that the bankruptcy protection so generously allowed by the feds in 2003-2004 still counts as government help, as it prevented the airline from going under like any other company in that situation.

Still doesn’t help the fact that I’ve never had good customer service with them.
MaxPower: June 16th, 2007 at 7:39 am
On my flight yesterday I had NO armrests, none! One broken and one wasn’t there at all!

Seat didn’t recline, no music/movies from the crappy 13 inch overhead monitors, nothing. The act of allowing that plane to fly rather than upgrading it is brutal.
AIRLINE: June 18th, 2007 at 10:06 pm
THIS MESSAGE IS FOR ALL YOU STUPID
INDIVIDUALS WHO NEED A LIFE………..

AIR CANADA IS A GREAT AIRLINE …. IT WILL ALWAYS BE A GREAT
AIRLINE.
So-CoAddict: June 21st, 2007 at 11:42 am
I recently flew Calgary – Toronto – Atlanta and I was upgraded (for the first time ever) to Executive Class. Man alive. I now see what people are paying the big bucks for. Salmon, cookies, wine, leg room, arm room, warm cloths, big screens, constant attention… and pretty much whatever else I wanted.

Now to be able to afford it on my own. HA! Riiight.
GDAC: June 21st, 2007 at 11:28 pm
Well I wont say much to the above. As per my last postings, I asked for facts to back up what was being said more than once and nothing ws presented, so I can only figure otherwise.

In resoponse to SO-CoAddict, all airlines, or I should say the ones based in North America and Europe atleast, make profits on their business class/first class sales. Seats sold in Y are just to break even.
Grfxguy: June 22nd, 2007 at 9:29 am
I could have sworn I said something about bankruptcy protection? Yup, there it is.

And, of course, in the news today: Air Canada not allowing pets to be flown in passenger flight cargo holds. Pets will now have to be shipped seperately on cargo flights.
GDAC: June 22nd, 2007 at 9:33 am
Mate,

facts = numbers

And yes, no pets because people have allergies. Also, people are against putting their pets in the cargo holds of a passenger plane because they feel its unsafe, to each their own.
Grfxguy: June 22nd, 2007 at 11:15 am
Air Canada’s stance on the “no pets” issue is not one of allergies: they’re claiming that the pets are taking up valuable room in cargo holds and that there is no room for them.

I, for one, can’t believe that there is enough pet traffic on Air Canada flights to say that you can’t fit them in the holds. It’s not like you get entire flights of people with caged dogs and cats, it’s more like one, maybe two people per flight, and I imagine that’s pretty rare too.

I’ll do some more data digging if you really want numbers, but here’s a good one (meaningless, but fun nonetheless): a google search for “Air Canada Sucks” gets 1.6 million hits. Throw in more synonyms for “suck” and I think that number will grow considerably.
GDAC: June 24th, 2007 at 7:40 am
A pet equals space plus a lot more space for installing heaters for animal comfort in the cabin hold, plus oxygen generators.

COming from a business point of view, people always complain about the product. Whats your field of study?
MaxPower: June 25th, 2007 at 8:17 am
The whole Air Canada apologist schtick is getting old. You love AC, you’re an AC fanboy. We get it, everything they do is gold. That’s fine, like I said, I fly AC and I have every right as a passenger to complain when I don’t have any AV, no working armrests and shoddy customer service. Will I be compensated for said shoddy service? I highly doubt it. I also have the right to fly on other airlines, however that is not always possible for a number of reasons.

But this comment is insane:

“And yes, no pets because people have allergies. Also, people are against putting their pets in the cargo holds of a passenger plane because they feel its unsafe, to each their own.”

Don’t talk to me about allergies – why does AC still sell cashews and almonds on planes when fatal nut allergies are far more common than fatal pet allergies (if there is even such a thing). The pet decision was totally economic – the $/lb charged for a pet was way lower than the $/lb charged for cargo. Just say that. Don’t pawn it off on people are against putting pets in holds. Typical AC attitude.
GDAC: June 25th, 2007 at 9:42 am
AC fanboy, give me a break. I just study business aviaition and work for another airline. an FYI, another unfactual statement made – cashews and peanuts are no longer sold.

no AV customer service or working armrests? How much do you pay again for tickets? another PS, a plane needs a working armrest to be dispatched.

Is there even a moderator to this site or are threads just set out in an array of people out to say things they dont even know.
MaxPower: June 25th, 2007 at 10:05 am
Seriously. My arm rest (both!) weren’t working and one wasn’t even there at all!

No cashews huh. http://www.aircanada.com/en/travelinfo/onboard/dining/na/onboard/images/Onboard_Cafe_ENG_FRE.pdf That is the latest menu. Maybe you can click that link and look at the picture. I see cashews and roasted salted almonds, $2 per bag. I also know this cause the guy beside me on my last flight bought them. And I never said peanuts, because they aren’t nuts.

Oh and like I need to prove it to anyone else but JD Power’s ranking of North American airlines came out June 19.

http://www.jdpower.com/util/ratings/results.aspx?study_id=120&vertical=Travel&v1=Traditional%20Network

Click the link. AC overall satisfaction – last, Flight Reservations/Scheduling – last, Check-in – last, Aircraft Interior – last, Boarding/Deplaning/Baggage – tied for 2nd last, In-flight amenities – tied for 2nd, cost & fees, last.

Hmm. Better brush up on your fact checking.
Grfxguy: June 25th, 2007 at 11:16 am
I doubt that they’d ground a plane because of a busted armrest. It’s a comfort feature, not a safety feature.

Aaaand I’m pretty sure MaxPower *is* the mod ;)
ACPilotWannabe: June 26th, 2007 at 9:46 am
They’ll ground a plane if its a narrow body and has 1 washroom not working in a flight exceeding I think 2.5 hours… MELs can be fun! :)

And to answer the pet thing… I’ve been sitting in on training sessions for the past month training a load agent. I never knew about these guys – their sole job is to make sure a plane is properly loaded and balanced before each flight… it’s actually important! The analogy I think is tetris, where they have all these weird peices of luggage and bins and crates each with their own restrictions like you can’t put livestock next to dry ice, temperature sensitive goods need to be somewhere special, etc. etc. Hey, pets are a bigger problem to load than just ‘oh there’s an empty spot!’ Unless you want Rover to suffer a slow and painful death alone in a dark cargo hold.

With respect to customer service… how would you feel dealing with hundreds of grumpy people who think that the 500+ dollar ticket is going towards the fat cat upper management people. Let me tell ya sumthin, there are more people handling the flight (baggage handlers, ticket agents, dispatchers, controllers, fuelers, document mangers, security, maintenance, etc. etc.) than there are passengers on board. Even for a fully loaded A380. Garunteed. Of all the stuff that goes on passengers have the least amount of stress to worry about… but are always the biggest whiners…

A veteran of 40+ flights on AC both overseas and domestic I have yet to have a bad experience… well… sorta had one… where I ordered a sandwich but got a minipizza instead… but they apologized and promptly got me my sandwich… it was really good. Roast beef.
Grfxguy: June 27th, 2007 at 3:07 pm
Hey I’ve got nothing against the guys on the ground. They always seem to do a pretty good job, and we know where the money is going.

The customer service problem is in the customer service department (ie: I don’t talk to the baggage handler when I lose my suitcase, because he loads what he’s given). I worked retail for all the time I was in college and trust me, I’ve dealt with angry boxing day hordes in an electronics store, but I always did it with a smile and courtesy. Plus, lots of other airlines manage to accomplish this, so why not AC?
D4V: June 28th, 2007 at 4:42 pm
Not alone here:

“Air Canada‚Äôs becoming a joke. A national embarassment to inefficiency and absurd practices.”

http://www.sowrey.org/2007/02/11/air-canada-sucks/
MaxPower: July 12th, 2007 at 7:07 am
Yeah so I think we’ve pretty much proved the view points expressed here are right on the money. But if anyone needs any more proof that many of AC’s policies aren’t thought through:

“The Canadian Transportation Agency said yesterday that as the result of a formal complaint it received last month, it has suspended the airline’s application to discontinue its practice of transporting animals in the hold on flights to the United States and other destinations abroad, which was set to take effect on Sunday.”

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20070712.PETS12/TPStory/National

Ooops.
AirlineBuff: July 16th, 2007 at 8:33 am
Air Canada is starting to move in the right direction… I think their new cabins look sleek, and modern… Nice Job AC!!

http://tinyurl.com/36u36a

http://tinyurl.com/39xdyx
Grfxguy: July 17th, 2007 at 9:48 am
Not too shabby. I’d fly on that.
No, Air Canada still sucks: September 4th, 2007 at 11:00 pm
Air Canada is at best, pathetic.

On a flight from Vancouver to Toronto on July 17th, I had the misfortune of getting a male flight attendant with serious personality issues. It seems as though I hurt his feelings by not smiling back at him for the umpteenth time and he got pouty on me. Long story short – after sitting in my seat quietly for 3 hours, he approached me just after I used the washroom and accused me of having smoked in the washroom. My first thought was that he was joking with me. However, he continued to press the issue and almost seemed hell-bent on ‚Äúbeating‚Äù a confession out of me. I most certainly did NOT smoke in the washroom, just in case you‚Äôre all curious.

Not only did he make these ridiculous accusations, but he made them in front of everybody who was seated near me – he wasn‚Äôt even professional enough to ask me to accompany him to a more private location. In all honesty, I was expecting airport security to be waiting for me when I got off the plane. I submitted a formal complaint to Air Canada via their website and received a automated response telling me it would take up to 15 business days for a detailed response to my complaint. At the end of the 16th business day, I submitted a follow-up complaint. I received NO word from AC until the day of my departure flight from Toronto to Vancouver on Aug 21. Good timing they have, no? The email I received – all 2 lines of it, basically told me I would have to wait as they have not finished their investigation, and that ‚Äúwe have a number of employees‚Äù, so these things take time. It was July the 17th when this incident occured, here I sit on September the 4th and I still haven‚Äôt even recieved an apology or explanation of any sort.

I am curious though, do you think it‚Äôs even possible to smoke in the washroom of an airplane? I mean, it‚Äôs about the size of a phone booth, and there‚Äôs a smoke detector directly above the toilet. Maybe they‚Äôre just there for show? Anybody want to test the theory? Is it even safe to fly on-board their aircraft?

I figure if AC refuses to deal with me in a private and professional manner I will take it public and see if that forces a response from them, even though it seems fairly obvious they don‚Äôt care.

Goodbye Air Canada, Hellllllllllllllo WestJet!
Canada 1 is not greedy( AIRCANADA IS AWESOME): September 22nd, 2007 at 7:25 pm
Air Canada has gotten better over the years of its flight service. The only problem is that their food is CRAPPY, the seats are ok, the screens are ok, the T.V is ok, though a little crappy, and the flight attendents, well i seem to get along with them all the time mostly because they’re woman and i’m a little kid. But i usually fly first class on ac just because of airmiles. For one, Singapore airlines is better funded as well as more high class than air canada. Do you see any of the 747’s flying in ac’s fleet? I don’t. The only really broken up planes are the 737s, 321s 320s and the 319s. These planes are the only ones that are the older ones. The last time i was riding air canada, the service was perfectly fine. And one thing, CANADA IS NOT GREEDY. THEY SPEND ALMOST 500 BILLION DOLLARS LIKE EVERY DAY.

These Jackasses quote:
# D4V Says:
November 23rd, 2006 at 8:04 am

I‚Äôve always wondered how this airline can always been at the top of it‚Äôs class‚Ä¶

..When Air Canada is still flying international planes with broken 1970‚Äôs TV sets ratteling from the isles.

Is Canada not a rich country?
# So-CoAddict Says:
November 23rd, 2006 at 8:36 am

It is, but it is also a greedy one. Go figure.
# MaxPower Says:
November 23rd, 2006 at 1:18 pm

That‚Äôs a 23 inch LCD screen there kids. FOR YOU.

Air Canada, may we please have a pillow and blanket? it is so cold at 36,000 ft.

No! No blanket for you. Five bucks.

No TV either – watch these 16 inch CRT screens manufactured in China in 1972, which are fuzzy and colour distorted.

I talked to a guy from England yesterday in a meeting – his first experience on Air Canada was on a Vancouver/Toronto flight. His comment – unprompted – ‚ÄúThe planes are kind of tatty aren‚Äôt they? A bit like flying in the 70s.‚Äù

Right on man. Right on.
# MacLeod Says:
November 23rd, 2006 at 4:26 pm

It‚Äôs not just Singapore. Pretty well every Asian airline seems to have it on Air Canada. They absolutely live for service. I flew Malaysian Air to Kuala Lumpur last summer and was blindsided by how comfy it was, not to mention how friendly the staff were. Korean Air, Asiana, Air China, Thai Airways, it‚Äôs all the same. Come to think of it, every airline I‚Äôve flown outside of Canada/US has been great compared to the shit we‚Äôre forced to fly back home. I‚Äôd be more than happy to never fly Air Canada again. Stupid fucking monopoly.
# D4V Says:
November 23rd, 2006 at 4:36 pm

Since we‚Äôre full on Air Canada bashing (does this ever get old?)‚Ä¶

It never ceases to amaze me how much the Canadian Government will help Air Canada stay in business.. For the love of god. Let it die!

And sader still.. I‚Äôve recently been hearing that flights are cheaper with Air Canada versus West Jet now. What the hell is going on?

Then again I guess the majority of airlines are all operating in debt. Why? Oil?

Bring back Canadian Airlines. ;)
# D4V Says:
November 23rd, 2006 at 4:37 pm

Side note.. I am speaking exclusively in phrases from now on. heh.
# So-CoAddict Says:
November 23rd, 2006 at 5:08 pm

Air Canada having lower prices than West Jet has been something that I too have noticed, as I occasionally check flights from Calgary to Ottawa/Toronto.

The best flight I can recall ever being on was a KLM flight to Amsterdam. I had salmon for a meal (which to this day I vow was one of the best meals I have ever had) and watched movies on a large projection screen. I have never experienced anything even close since then. That was back in ‚Äò96 too.
# MacLeod Says:
November 24th, 2006 at 12:23 am

A buddy of mine was flying from San Francisco to Seoul on Singapore Air. His flight was delayed for a couple hours so they loaded the passengers on some buses and took them to a buffet restaurant. Why North American airlines don‚Äôt understand the importance of customer service of the above-and-beyond variety is beyond me.
# MaxPower Says:
November 24th, 2006 at 7:32 am

Oil isn‚Äôt causing airlines financial problems – anyone notice how all of the airlines jacked up the ‚Äúfuel surcharge‚Äù when oil went 70+ and now that its sub 60 those surcharges are still there?

The thing that is causing problems is the high cost structure of the labour forces, caused mainly by unions. Point in case – Air Canada‚Äôs flight attendants have to be the OLDEST in the freakin world. They are all 40 – 50 yr olds who have been doing this for 20+ years. They got seniority and when AC/Canadian merged they all stuck around. Since they have contractual pay increases every year, well 20 years of decent bumps in salary means they are making WAY more than the cheap and cheerful 18 year olds which do the same job in Europe. Oh, but you don‚Äôt want 18 year olds in case there is an emergency you say? Look dude, if the plane is crashing I‚Äôm putting pretty slim odds on me living period, and even slimmer odds on the flight attendants doing something which would SAVE me.

I don‚Äôt know what is up with WJ charging a higher fare, the only thing I can think of is they are comfortable in their duopoly status. The prices are still insane in Canada though. I wanted to go Toronto – New York for a weekend. Air Canada out of Pearson, $455 return, US Airways out of Buffalo, $165 return (Canadian!). AND since US Airways is a ‚ÄúStar Alliance‚Äù member I got full aeroplan miles which I wouldn‚Äôt have gotten at all if I took the ‚Äúcheap‚Äù Air Canada fare.

And finally to D4Vs ‚Äúdoesn‚Äôt this get old question‚Äù – it‚Äôll get old when Air Canada stops sucking so bad. Although I have to say, I agree with MacLeod‚Äôs posts above, I think it is more North American shitty service issues than stuff which is systemic to Air Canada.

OH! And if anyone remembers my first Air Canada sucks article on R4NT in 2001, I said they told me the seat back TVs would be installed in their A330s within the year. Yeah, 6 years later. No dice.
# Grfxguy Says:
November 30th, 2006 at 3:32 pm

Remember West Jet hacking into AC‚Äôs computer billing system? One of the bargaining deals was that Westjet‚Äôs prices would be somewhat monitored by AC for a bit. AC took an opportunity to lower prices.

The other reason, really, is supply and demand. More people demand Westjet because the service is better, therefore it will cost more.
…………………………………
Totally GEARED TOWARDS Maxpower
You JAckass, you don’t pay 5$ for a pillow and blanketO.o.
1. The LCD moniters are a lot better these days unlike how you describe it.
2. Again Geared towards Maxpower
Wat the hell are you going to do in a crash if theres no FA. Dam it read the fcking signs and watch the demos. Those help a lot u jackass. I hope you do read these because if theres a crash, i don’t really care. I’ll just run off and go open a door.
3. Ok that made no sense.
Wat would i do if all the FAs were either dead or ran away? I would find the nearest exit that was NOT blocked and open the fricking door. Whats so hard about turning a knob and then pulling a lever?
4. Again, Air Canada is hired on its quality, and their service. Its not all about the looks. I’ll bet you they chose some old granny for a 18 year old girl who looked fcking sexy.
5. I have to agree with No, Air Canada still sucks about the email thing, i sent a message and got a automatic reponse saying i would get a reply. Instead, i never did. I got some reponse going we respect your opiinions and shit but i never saw any replies goin on.
6. Air Canada is a private airline. They are on their own. There not even a big company that is freakin rich like Singapore. I bet Singapore airlines has a freakin 500 trillion dollars but air canda has like 100 trillion. Not even. Singapore Airlines is only better because they actually earn good money from their passangers. Air Canada is prettey good already because their seats are ok and the flight attendants are great.
7. I’m prettey loyal to the airlineXD. My mom and my sister work in Air Canada. My mom’s a pilot and my sis is a attendant so i get to fly a lot:D. I usually fly Hong Kong Toronto a lot with my sis and mom. Sometimes we do other flights like to Sydney. So i get my special tour of the cabin on the ground and i getta help out with passengers:D Isn’t life awesome? By the way, the new 777s are ok. My mom flew them in august. She said it was a good plane with not a lot of bad systems. My moms a veteran at this airline and has been working here for at least 19 years. This air line is AWESOME.
Canada 1 is not greedy( AIRCANADA IS AWESOME): September 22nd, 2007 at 7:27 pm
Okok i have to admit, i’m special just because my simbling and my mom work in this airline but still its a lot better than riding American Airlines in eco class.
Grfxguy: September 24th, 2007 at 11:09 pm
Wow, somebody has a lot of time on their hands. I suppose with all those frequent flyer miles you have to do *some*thing will all that first class internet access.

Seriously kid, if you think coming on to here and swearing at us is the way to enter a debate, you’ve got a very steep learning curve ahead of you. If you were working for me with that kind of piss-poor attitude, not to mention spelling, you’d be out on your butt in no time.
MaxPower: September 26th, 2007 at 5:49 am
Haha wow.
jman: September 29th, 2007 at 7:21 am
air canada rocks- you have your own touch screen lcd computer/tv in economy even! Dont say otherwize man
jman is an idiot: September 29th, 2007 at 5:14 pm
Otherwise with a z?

Idiot.
Grfxguy: September 30th, 2007 at 7:53 pm
On a few flights perhaps. However, AC is only applying services like that to certain flights, and only on brand new planes. They are not following up on their promise to retrofit the old planes. I have yet to fly on one of the nice ones, as they are few and far between.
MaxPower: October 1st, 2007 at 8:08 am
They are moving ahead with the upgrading. Recently I am 3/8 on upgraded aircraft with the seat back TVs.

You can see a list of all the upgraded aircraft here:

http://www.contrailsphotography.com/acxm1.html

You have about a 75% chance of getting an upgraded A320 now. They should be done by mid 08, about 2 years late.
ACPilotWannabe: October 1st, 2007 at 6:23 pm
This is in response to something said on September 4th…

Smoking on planes is actually a chargeable offense… you will be met be police officers if you are caught smoking on a plane. It happens more often than you think also, at Air Canada alone at least once a day. There is actually a standard procedure for it… I’m sure what was investigated was whether or not the flight attendant overstepped his boundaries when inquiring about the incident, not so much that he offended you… so any sort of disciplinary action is highly unlikely; you can blame the unions for that, not the company.

Also, all the complaints are actually read and dealt with in one way or another. Often, it doesn’t get very far because the complaints are sent to an overworked management type who hooked up with the airline to fly, but financial circumstances forced them into the office… or maybe it was sent to an intern who really didn’t know what to do with it.

I can’t really tell you my source, since I’m really not supposed to know about this! Lets just say a friend of a friend knows a guy who is currently a dispatcher at AC…
No, Air Canada still sucks: October 2nd, 2007 at 4:02 pm
Here’s an update…in case anybody is interested…

This is the response that I received from one of AC‚Äôs ‚Äúcustomer service‚Äù people. Can you believe I had to wait 59 days for this? Below is the email, exactly as I received it – I only deleted both of our names.

Thank you for your email. Once again we sincerely apologize for the delay in responding.

Miss (deleted), passenger and flight safety is our crew‚Äôs prime objective. Smoking onboard is a very serious offence and therefore if a crewmember suspects someone has smoked, it is their duty to investigate. We do install smoke detectors in the lavatories for the safety of all. However, from our experience, it appears certain passengers have found ways of smoking without it being detected.

While we certainly regret any discomfort you felt during your flight, our investigation has revealed that our crewmember did not accuse you of smoking in the washroom.

“We thank you for taking the time to write and we do hope all future travels with Air Canada are uneventful.”

Apparently, as far as AC is concerned, I have nothing better to do with my time than manufacture complaints, chase them down and wait nearly 2 months for some kind of resolution. As though it were not bad enough to have had this experience in the first place, now I am being called a liar.

I don‚Äôt know if this person whom I am dealing with is new to the world of ‚Äúcustomer service‚Äù, but she doesn‚Äôt seem to be very good at her job. Is anybody else shocked that she came right out and told me that it‚Äôs not only possible to bypass the security features on their planes, but that they know it‚Äôs happening and are either unprepared or unwilling to deal with the situation?
Also, I find it odd that she makes a point of explaining how some people are able to circumvent the anti-smoking features in their airplanes and how their staff has a duty to investigate when they suspect somebody of smoking,
and then proceed to tell me that this never happened in my case. Why explain their duty to investigate if they are insistent that I was never accused?

Furthmore this line sticks out as all kinds of ‚Äúodd‚Äù to me as well ‚ÄúWhile we certainly regret any discomfort you felt during your flight..‚Äù
Why apologize for my discomfort, if the experience which caused me discomfort in the first place, never occured?

Needless to say, I have since sent a reply to this letter and I am again awaiting a response. I wonder how many months this one will take? LOL
Grfxguy: October 2nd, 2007 at 5:25 pm
I’d take solace in the fact that they’ve probably spent the cost of your plane ticket investigating. At least you dinged them that way.
MaxPower: October 2nd, 2007 at 8:46 pm
I think since it is a federal arrestable offence that you would get a bit more than a whoops sorry email.

I guess there is nothing to prevent false accusations? In essence it is your word against his.

Thanks for the update.
Air Canada what a joke!: October 5th, 2007 at 12:59 pm
I guess with Air Canada finally improving it still doesnt prove much after dealing with rude staff, and unimproved aircraft for so many years. I fly Edmonton to London alot and have been doing so for over the past five years, about four times a year. I travelled every route through Vancouver, Calgary, Toronto, Ottawa, and Montreal. Incident after incident, constant emailing, and a great amount of paitence never got me anywhere with AC. I would never fly them again. I now fly through the US on United which they have a better grasp of how a modern airline should serve their customers. Its all about Customer Service, which AC doesnt have, AC maybe a monopoly in canada, but their poor service is whats driven their gradually decline into bankruptcy along with other issues(ex. Sept. 11). I have researched it well and for myself I now avoid AC at any cost, same with the rest of my work colleges that are feed up with AC. “A note for everyone those smaller check-in desks at canadian airports for foreign airlines are alot better.” USE THEM!!!!
Craig: October 11th, 2007 at 9:57 pm
I love air canada and want to work for them but holy crap when you land its like we took off four hours ago the jetway is supposed to be ready. The maintenance crew are like well im sorry but we busy. Busy what for god sakes
Craig: October 11th, 2007 at 10:02 pm
hey maxpower you said because us airways is part of star alliance you got reward miles well air canada is part of star alliance too
Craig: October 11th, 2007 at 10:05 pm
I agree with GDAC because air canadas employees are better trained i know of a few incidents of korean air killing more than 10 people each on being the worst single crash in avition history i believe.
Grfxguy: October 12th, 2007 at 3:25 pm
I’m not entirely sure what you’re getting at with that last one. You mean because Korean Air flight attendants aren’t trained, they’ve each killed 10 people? I find that hard to believe.
MaxPower: October 13th, 2007 at 1:36 pm
I agree with Grfxguy, I don’t what you’re talking about. I know AC is part of the StarAlliance which is why I was pleased to fly US Airways. I can carry over my status/points with them – same with United, same with Lufthansa, same with all the StarAlliance carriers.

I actually just booked another flight with US Airways to get my points. In that case I would have flown Air Canada but their schedule was poor, getting me to my destination at earliest by 8pm while going with US Airways I get there at 1pm. United’s schedule was the same as AC’s so US Airways got my business there.

And just as a point – the single worst crash in Aviation history was actually in Tenerife in 1977 when two 747s collided killing 583 people (Pan American Airlines and KLM if it matters). With number 2 being a Japan Airlines 747 crash killing 520 people, so I don’t know what you’re talking about with respect to Korean Air.
Texican: October 16th, 2007 at 5:14 pm
Our neighbors were burned alive on an AC plane headed for Canada back in the 80’s. I first flew AC ORD-YYZ back in the 90’s and couldn’t beleive the abominable condition of the DC-9 or how old and rude the flight attendants were. Last May, our BA flight back to the states was cancelled and we ended up on AC through Canada. I bought the only seats available, first class, and figured it would be comparable to BA or AA. We are still laughing about that trip. Six hours late, the food was inedible, the entertainment system, half the ovens and several WCs were not working…neither were the FAs…they stayed ganged-up gossiping around the galley. Our luggage arrived two days late and two pieces short. We’ve only been on one flight in 30 years that was worse, a SLM Suriname Airlines flight from Amsterdam, and they refunded our fare!
Doug: October 26th, 2007 at 6:41 am
Considering the debate about older, more experienced (and perhaps better trained F/As) vs much younger, less experienced female F/As – as are found for example on most Asian carriers – I prefer the previous. Sure, who doesn’t mind attractive young, attractive F/As (especially if you’re a guy), but in the event of a crash or serious incident, training and experience are what saves the day. Your F/A could look like a fashion model, but if she can’t rescue you, much less herself, you’ll both be in bodybags.
MaxPower: October 26th, 2007 at 11:25 am
Body bags or not – check out the new Singapore Airlines A380 interior!!!

http://www.news.com/2300-11397_3-6215473-4.html?tag=ne.gall.pg

Look at #4 or First Class and #16 for Business Class.
Grfxguy: October 26th, 2007 at 4:15 pm
The only way people gain experience is from being in a situation. All the seminars and training in the world cannot train you to ignore survival instincts in a crash.

I’m going to take a guess and say very few active FA’s have been in actual crashes, let alone properly simulated ones. I doubt three of them vs 100 terrified and adrenalin pumped passengers would do much for survival.

I’m not against older FA’s, but the argument that they’d be more effective is not substantiated by anything.
Angela: November 18th, 2007 at 3:11 am
Look, I am a Asian. I mind not know much about American or European airline but i am sure I know some facts about Asian airline.

Firstly, with common sense, NO airline just pick nice looking girls and let them on the plane the next day. They are trained and tested.

Secondly, as Grfxguy has said, people gain experience from a situation. you mind have worked in a airline for 20 years but never been in a accident. What the airline needs is someone that stay calm and remember rules even in a dangerous situation.
Thirdly, not all asian airline are good, I have to admid that some are rubbish. For example, Air Asia ( a Malaysian Airline). But some you can get a great experience with a cheap price to pay off, like China Airline.

Well, if you have money and you want to be comfortable, I’ll suggest you to take Singapore Airline or Thai Airline, they are both a member of Star Allience.
al: November 24th, 2007 at 9:10 pm
Look… Air canada sucks!!! On the way over my partner’s sound system didnt work and on the way back they reset the equipment was reset and the movie that i was watching disappeared. Also it took like 20 mins to get back into the system 4 me and my partner could not resume his music… Flew air canada a while ago and it sucked… gave it a second chance and it still sucks on the new 777s (both ways, i checked). Westjets IFE actually works so go westjet (and no i dont work 4 westjet)
Ez: December 16th, 2007 at 7:21 pm
I will be flying from sydney to toronto with the stop in vancouver on the new 777 service and look forward to checking out the new economy product very much.
amad: December 29th, 2007 at 6:29 am
i am canadian nd i flew air canada like 100 times at the start i didnot liked AC but now i think its the best .

did you see the new 777 it the best and let me tell you something singapore airlines are not good loking
MacLeod: January 1st, 2008 at 1:14 am
Pico Iyer knows a few things about flying. He seems to agree that Asian in-flight customer service is much better: http://jetlagged.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/12/14/the-friendliest-country-and-the-unfriendliest-skies/

I just spent a month traveling and flew on a few different airlines. Dragon Air, Air Asia, Asiana, Malaysia Air, and United. Only the latter one had old surly flight attendants, and only that one was enjoyable. And as others have noted above, being 50 doesn’t mean you’re any better equipped to handle a crash than someone 30. You both get the same training. It just means you’re 50.
FLGTDISPTCHR: January 3rd, 2008 at 7:07 am
Results 1 – 10 of about 7,280,000 for air canada is great.

Gimme a break…..it’s better then the bus! It’s not a cruise ship, if you want to be pampered you pay for first class or exec.. If you want cheap seats you sit down and shut up and behave like sheep. It’s expected of you!
WhO CaRe aBouT NaMe??: January 3rd, 2008 at 9:16 am
I think Air Canada is not That Bad
Does it ReAlly matter?: January 4th, 2008 at 3:43 pm
OMG everyone!!!..Obviously, Air Canada doesn’t really compare to all those freakin Asian airlines. Those airlines take it to another level when it comes to flying. BUT seriously, compare Air Canada to American airlines, continental, northwest and all those legacy airlines and you’ll see air Canada is the best. WHY is it always about comparing to Air Canada!? Its been voted the best airline in North America. WHY dont you all compare Singapore to Emirates airlines or Etihad..then there will ACTUALLY be some similarities.
Grfxguy: January 8th, 2008 at 11:57 pm
I think the original idea, for the most part, was why can’t North American airlines attempt to meet this standard of service? It’s not even offered here, so how do we know it can’t work?

People are willing to pay extra to fly Virgin Airlines for the service and hospitality.

I just arrived home from Hawaii, and flew AC, United, and Hawaiian. AC was moderate, it still pisses me off that you only get a half can of pop, where everybody else gives you a full can. Seriously, and I think I speak for a lot of people, spend the other 25 cents and gimme a damn can. It’s the small things.

Also my TV didn’t work.
BAXTAir: January 14th, 2008 at 8:59 pm
Grfxguy, You seem to complain alot about the quality of serivce on AC, but what European carriers have you personally flown on?

Through my experiences, getting on more that 50 planes a year, Air Canada is much better than european airlines. Sure if you fly BA in first class you will get incredible service, if you are willing to pay twice as much. Lufthansa isnt bad, but Air Canada is still alot better, they may not have leather seats, but atleast the interiors are being updated to include lie-flat seats and PTV as well as power outlets in every seat. The last flight I had on KLM was from FRA-AMS-HEL. Trust me flying regional on AC is much better.

You say that AC should make their classes better because people will pay for it, thats why there is Executive First. There are the people who are willing to pay for a larger seat and a nice meal, and those who would rather fly for incredibly cheap and then bitch about the service provided. How do you expect AC to wipe your ass when you can fly to FRA for $300.

As for the half can of pop, if it really matters to you go ask for another drink. They are complimentary. As for the tv being broken, every airline has problems with their inflight systems. Since AC is just bringing in this new system there are going to be problems. Trust me, flying West Jet, JAL, ANA, Lufthansa, United, any airline, there will be problems from time to time.

If you really want your ass kissed when you travel once or twice a year, pay the extra and fly with an executive airline, not one that is trying to meet everyones needs.

and whomever Does it ReAlly matter? is, you bring up a very valid point. AC has been voted the Best North American Airline since 2005, so peopole, stop your bitching, and if you reallly want to experience bad service, fly within europe, you will find the service on Air Canada miles better.
D4V: January 15th, 2008 at 10:19 am
It’s “a lot” btw..
Grfxguy: January 15th, 2008 at 1:04 pm
I bitch a bit about AC, but my complaint as a whole extends to almost all North American carriers. Sure they have first class, but nothing like Singapore. That’s the whole point. Why not? I got to see a Singapore jet at LAX recently and it is exactly what it’s cracked up to be.

I predict Virgin Airlines, upon breaching the NA market in a more commanding fashion, will be the first to offer service in this magnitude.
ACPilotWannaBe: January 29th, 2008 at 2:44 pm
Consider this: Airlines in Asia are not bound by union and standard of life issues that AC and other north american airlines are bound by. If a FA or Customer Service Rep does not behave in a certain way, they are fired… no questions asked. Due to unions and civil rights movements etc. companies can not fire people on the spot, especially large companies like AA, AC… discount carriers are not necessarily bound by these same rules.

I’m sad to see people so quick to leave AC for other companies… I mean… lets keep Canadian money in Canada, at the very least if you leave AC go to Air Transat or Westjet.
Grfxguy: January 30th, 2008 at 1:17 am
I’d rather fly AC than Transat, I must say. Westjet can have my business anyday.

I miss people being fired for being a screw-up. These days, if you’re incompetent, there are a million regulations to hide behind. No service with a smile anymore…
LONDONER: February 1st, 2008 at 12:34 am
I have to say that my many experiences with Air Canada have been Great. Always get great service, and the aircraft always seem to be kept in good repair. Same goes for KLM.

Maybe it is because I am always on the same flight(YYZ-LHR) I don’t know. But it seems that some people just have nothing better to do with thier time than bitch about stupid things.

If you have a problem with a service, and a complaint has been made, and the situation still has not been corrected, then move on!

If I go to a restaurant and see that it is crowded, I dont complain to my server that I had to wait 30 min. for a table since I was the idiot that saw how long the wait was going to be, and decided to stay anyway. That would be MY fault.

F/A’s for Air Canada do not make good money by the way. At most 23p/h and that is paid time from one gate to another. They do not get paid for boarding or depalneing(if I spelled that right?) or layovers or delays.

So give them some respect, because they work a lot of unpaid hours for their passengers, and even though you don’t want to admit it, they ARE there to save your ass in an emergency.

The problem is almost never the service workers such as F/A’s but almost always the customer! Sorry to those of you who find that offensive, but you obviously go into every service experience looking for something to complain about!
BombDotCom: February 3rd, 2008 at 5:02 pm
I know aircanada has crappy service, old planes, and they charge you for just about everything, but really. They are improving. They just purchased embrauer 175s which i’ve flown on, and every seat has a personal screen, plus very comfortable. And also they ARE NOT getting funded by the government. I have been flying aircanada since 1998, and I have noticed very big changes. Now, I am living in Atlanta, and I still travel almost every week. But now I fly Delta. and very day, I pray to go back to aircanada, because delta and any other american airline is TERRIBLE. So really guys, lets stop bashing poor aircanada to the ground, because number one, it is very hard to stay alive in the airline buisness, and number two, compared to american airlines, aircanada is like a god airline.
Grfxguy: February 6th, 2008 at 1:11 pm
We’re not the one’s who keep digging this thing up, you guys are :)
MaxPower: February 7th, 2008 at 9:31 am
Life of its own baby. I first posted this in Nov 06. Since then, I agree, the planes that have the seat back TVs are nice, no question. However until that retrofit is done you really notice the crappy old planes.

On my last trip I had one great refurbished plane with plenty of movie choices and one ancient A320 with those 16 inch CRT screens coming down from the middle of the aisle which was fuzzy and blurred. My armrest also moved laterally about 45 degrees as it was broken. So get the refurbishment done (going on a year and half late now) and I’d be willing to admit that AC has the best fleet in North America, give credit where it is due.
Flyervic: February 9th, 2008 at 10:30 pm
Hey there Grfxguy,

Try this… The next time you fly with us (Air Canada) , just ask for the FULL can when ordering your drink. I serve countless cans a day (with a smile) :)

So next time try this novel idea… ask… U shall receive..

Hope your future travels with us are what you expect. We only try our BEST up there…..

Cheers!
Grfxguy: February 11th, 2008 at 10:00 pm
I only mentioned it because I have asked…and have not received. But perhaps I’ll be lucky enough to get you on my next flight, as I would like nothing more than to have somebody change my opinion about this :)
So-CoAddict: February 12th, 2008 at 1:23 pm
The last Air Canada flight I was on was to/from Vancouver (with D4V). The flight going was average, even though D4V and I mocked the UI of the LCD touch screens. The flight returning wasn’t so great as we were on an older plane. No LCD’s, and every CRT was broken or scrambled.

AND, our return flight was DEAD. Complete rows were open, yet previous to boarding our flight, the computer system told us those seats (the empty ones) were full, so we couldn’t sit beside each other. I mean, we moved was we realized that everything was open… but the fact that they are telling customers that seats are full when they are in fact not booked at all makes you wonder… (btw, I’ve only found this out for Air Canada. For all I know, every airline does this).
Flyervic: February 16th, 2008 at 11:55 pm
I’m surprised Grfxguy that some of my colleagues don’t offer you the can once u asked for it..

Never seen that happen on my several flights i am on… (but… i’ll give you the benefit of the doubt)

Looking forward to serve ya.
Cheers!
MaxPower: February 25th, 2008 at 12:19 pm
In danger of beating a dead horse – here is a quick comparison of a recent flight (similar routing) between US Airways and Air Canada.

Booking/Check-in Service
- both booked online, no problems with booking, however US Airways allowed me to change seats online at any time from the time I booked to the time of the flight which was great.
- Air Canada’s website post-booking has less functionality

Planes
- US Airways – two old planes (including an insanely old 757) with interiors that needed to be updated. In-flight entertainment was essentially non-existant on old CRT screens and had to pay $5 for headphones. Free blankets & pillows.
- Air Canada – one old plane, one new plane (with seat back TVs!), however half of the plane’s seat back TVs were broken (including ours) so we had no in-flight entertainment at all. $5 blanket and pillows.
- AC wins as the new interior plane was nice, just wished the TVs worked.

On-time performance
US – one flight on-time, one flight 30 mins early
AC – one flight on-time, one flight 1 hr late

I’d say AC > US based on the one newly refurbished plane. Get all planes upgraded and the in flight entertainment working and thumbs up.
TeddyCanuck: February 27th, 2008 at 11:29 pm
hey Flyervic — You and your employer are a joke. YJJ-YVR round trip $510.48. From the time I checked my bag (Feb.16) till today I haven’t seen my bag and I don’t case about weight imbalance issues with Dash-8/300’s (Don’t but Bombardiers then).
I spend a week in Cabo St. Lucas attending a wedding wearing shit from a Mexican Wal-mart.
So Flyervic, where’s my suitcase?
Don’t worry, a Westjet FA already apologized to me on “behalf of Canadian all airlines.”
How the hell Air Canada forwarded my bag to SJD (Los Cabos) via Mexicali Air without me, and doing so without being able to confirm I actually boarded my Westjet flight to SJD is a huge security issue. Damn good thing I ain’t a terrorist.
I didn’t even know my suitcase made it to Mexico until I was back a YVR.
So Flyervic, where’s my suitcase?
I sold my A.C.E. aviation shares this AM… Only the best of the breed in my portfolio, and Air Canada is is a dog investment
Grfxguy: February 29th, 2008 at 2:08 pm
^ Ouch!
Stratus: March 5th, 2008 at 9:01 am
yeah. .. i’m jumping on the Air Canada Sucks bandwagon.. i’m currently exchanging letters and faxes with “customer service” (if you can call it that) – while they explain to me why they’ve decided, with Aeroplan, not to give me points on my recent round trip london heathrow – Calgary flight.

Seriously, I booked with Expedia.com, not through the AC site – I didn’t have any choice about booking classes.. and AFTER the flight I’m told that I was put in booking class “K” which doesn’t get any Aeroplan points.. that sucks.. and they’re saying “oh.. well. youshould have investigated … and found out before booking” ..

I’m saying “huh?” you mean it’s now the customer’s responsibility to notify ourselves when we’re placed in a booking class we have no control over and to discover what that means? I say.. if they’re going to accept bookings from Expedia, they should have the same booking class notices they have on the A/C web site so we KNOW if we’re being screwed out of our points.

This is my 3rd issue with A/C – once they lost my luggage between calgary and thunder bay.. (they left it in Winnipeg).. and the last time,when I was very, very very ill, running a fever, dehydrated .. they offered me all the free beer and wine I wanted (flying trans-atlantic again).. but wouldn’t give me more than an eeensy weensy glass of water.. I even offered to pay for more.. and they refused outright… their excuse was something like: “well.. we don’t have enough water to give each customer a whole bottle.. so we can’t make an exception for you just because you look as if you’re going to die, can’t talk and are giving off more heat than our jet engines” – in that instance I complained.. (twice) and finally received a $50 voucher and a personalised, instead of a form-letter appology.

I’m really ticked off about these aeroplan points though.. i’m just about to fax them my 2nd complaint on this

st.
MaxPower: March 5th, 2008 at 10:12 am
Booking classes is a complicated game if you book on any site other than the AC website or through a travel agent. Here is a good link to a description on all the booking classes and how many points you get from them.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22809

I’m trying to get credit currently for a flight I recently took which they didn’t give me points for because it was a “non-domestic” flight… uh what? I have to MAIL in my receipts (which are of course electronic and could be emailed, but no – snail mail please).
Grfxguy: April 20th, 2008 at 10:49 pm
Alright, I’m flying out to Victoria to go apartment hunting. Air Canada (Tango) happens to be having a killer seat sale that blows westjet out of the water by about $300. So I figure, what the hell, I can endure AC for that price.

Looking today, AC has added a flight on the same day I’m flying, but at a much better time, for the exact same price. I’d like to switch to that flight.

I log on to my itinerary, which promptly tells me that I cannot change this flight online. Excuse me? What about that extra $10 I paid, during the booking, THAT WAS SUPPOSED TO LET ME CHANGE MY FLIGHT ONLINE?!
MaxPower: April 21st, 2008 at 1:36 pm
Yeah, it is interesting how “normal travellers” interpret things.

Tango is AC’s lowest booking class. With it, you can make a la cart changes to your ticket. In your case I think you are referring to this:

“Flexibility No changes, no cancellation Subtract $5″

AC will take $5 off your ticket if you agree you can’t change it or cancel it. However even if you don’t click that button (and by presumption ARE able to change/cancel the ticket) you still fall into the fare terms of a Tango ticket. Which, to be blunt, suck. To change your ticket you need to pay $60 per direction. But if you would have taken that $5 off you wouldn’t have been able to change/cancel your ticket at all.

So really you didn’t pay $10 extra, you happened to forgo a savings of $5/direction for the benefit of AC not stripping you of all rights. So by forgoing the $5/direction savings, AC is giving you the opportunity to make changes for $60! It is all about customer choice you see!

Actually, it is all about lowering consumer expectations. Additionally I love the new Air Canada a la cart option “On My Way – In case of unexpected flight delays or disruptions, purchase On My Way – uniquely designed to offer you a smooth, stress free travel experience Add $25 ”

$25 bones to make us pretend we care about you getting to your destination. AC makes it so easy to say they suck. Oh and yeah, you’re stuck with the ticket you booked unless you want to pay the $60.
Grfxguy: April 21st, 2008 at 10:44 pm
I wound up ponying up another $60. It was a bonehead move to not book the other flight in the first place, but even with the $60 I’ll wind up getting a good deal still.

But damn, that’s bad service.
Ronald J: July 17th, 2008 at 5:54 pm
Okay, this is just pathetic. We all are Canadians here and I’m going to have to tell you die hard-fanatics here. Get real! If our companies are producing an inferior product, put it out in the open and address it and hopefully someday it’ll change.

ACPilotWannaBe: Keep Canadian money in Canada? Not a chance. If a foreign company is going to offer me a much better product, I’m taking it. With the hope that the loss of revenue will hopefully make them rethink the way they do business.

So get real guys. Air Canada has NOTHING on Singapore.

I flew on Singapore for Business on their 777 planes within Southeast Asia (comparable to a North American domestic flight in terms of distance) and on the A380 on a Transaltantic flight.

Even for a short 2 hour flight, the standards of SQ are high, they are friendly and they make you comfortable. Their level of professionalism is something you rarely find on any other airline, except perhaps Emirates or Qatar.

But Air Canada is miles away. Possibly better than American, Delta, United, Southwest or Jetblue but it still has nothing on Singapore.

It really boils down to training and how much resources the airline puts into the service aspect of their flight. But it is really up to the airline. Singapoer Air is the 2nd most profitable carrier in the world (behind Southwest which has a low cost advantage) and it can still offer the best service standards. What does this tell you?

Air Canada has gotten slightly better for me in recent years but they still have miles to go. Singapore Airlines is perhaps the finest airline in the world- its not benchmark for Air Canada. Try a more achievable benchmark.
Oh Air Canada, you so sneaky - Behind R4NT: September 18th, 2008 at 11:00 am
[...] on the surface these changes appear good, to someone, like myself, who has not taken kindly to Air Canada’s current suite of service offerings. However, after [...]
cliffy: December 24th, 2008 at 4:05 pm
I spent half my life in Singapore the other half in Toronto. Hence AC and SIA are the 2 airlines I fly most frequently on.

When I was in my teens, my observation of flying SIA is that the stewardess seem bias against locals (Asian passengers) while seemingly ready to bend over backwards for western passengers. On a SIA flight in ‘92 to Toronto, a SIA Stewardess was on her knees rubbing the foot of a Western female passenger who complained of an aching foot. I just cannot imagine the stewardess doing the same for me.

For many years I avoided SIA and had pleasant experience on airlines such as BA.

Fast forward to 2004, I accidentally suffered a severe cut across my thumb hours before I was meant to fly from Toronto back to Singapore. It probably required stitching but I did not want to go to the ER and risk missing my flight, so I did my best to stop the bleeding and applied a band-aid.

Only after checking in at Pearson, clearing customs and US immigration with an hour to spare did I start worrying about what the cabin pressure might do to the bleeding. Plus my band-aid has fallen off. Will my thumb be squirting blood on take-off? Approached an AC staff for first aid help and was told that is only available outside the check-in area. I.e. If I want help I will have to go out and go thru the custom and immigration all over again. This means I will likely miss my flight. I thought let’s try to bear with it until I touch down at SFO and get help there.

Touched down at SFO 5hrs later, approached customer service and asked for first aid, he pulled out a 2 feet thick airport manual and directed me to the Int’l Terminal. Got there and headed straight to the First Aid sign and to my horror there’s a 50 men lineup. I headed to the front of the lineup just to ask if this is the right line, seem odd that there be so many passengers seeking first aid. The airport staff looked at me like I was mad and asked “What First Aid? what are you talking about?” at the point the man at the front of the line spoke up for me and pointed to the large sign on the wall and said he’s not here for first aid but that what the sign says. I was then informed by the airport staff we don’t offer first aid anymore. If there’s ever a need, we will call an Ambulance to take you to the ER. Needless to say that will mean missing my connection to Singapore.

So 2 airports failed me and I flown a good 6 hrs. I’m sure I survive the flight back to Singapore. By now I’m keeping the pressure on my severely cut thumb by wrapping it with multiple paper napkins from the food court.

Boarded my SIA back, gave up on getting any first aid, if I can’t get it on land at 2 International Airports, what are the odds of getting it in the air. So I bothered no one and was contented on getting stitched only after I land in Singapore. Within an hour into the flight the SIA Stewardess spotted my thumb wrapped in paper napkins and asked to see the wound. I showed her and before I know it she left and returned with a fir4st aid kit. I was expecting her to just grab me a new band aid. Instead she took out alcohol wipes, saline and was washing my wound! before applying a band aid on it. Now who on this forum believe you can expect similar service on AC or any other N. American airline for that matter. Remember, I didn’t ask for her assistance, she was observant and took the initiative.

I stand by what I thought of SIa back in the early 90s. I believe they together with the country of Singapore has matured and nolonger treat passengers differently based on their background.

On Air Canada, in all fairness, they came along way from 1999-2001, when they were public enemy #1. Aeroplan is about the best program around. The upgrade certificates are real incentive to be loyal. The only downside is perhaps it is their only strength and therefore perhaps their achilles heel in that they rely entirely on aeroplan points (as mentioned by previpous contributors) its becomes the only reason to fly AC. This I believe may prevent AC from becoming competitive in other areas. i.e food and onboard entertainment.
Joseph: January 23rd, 2009 at 11:11 pm
Okay, this constant bickering absolutely has to stop. There have been too many wrongful accusations made for you all to consider yourselves civil (much less justified) in any way, shape or form. Before I present my views. I will present you with my credibility. I am a Canadian Commercial pilot who has flown Air Canada and WestJet (not to mention Canadian Airlines and Eastern Provincial Airways before they were acquired) and several other foreign airlines many times in the past, probably more so than many of you combined (don’t refute this point, I realize that I can’t say that with any real accuracy). I have also had the pleasure of personally flying a number of aircraft ranging from single engine Cessnas to multi-engine aluminum, pressurized monsters of the sky. I also have the benefit of my father being the most senior first officer on board the 767 aircraft in Air Canada’s fleet. These airplanes are old and as they are being phased out for replacement by the newer 787 fleet are not receiving an IFE (In flight Entertainment) upgrade, or an interior upgrade like the newer Airbus and Embraer models.
To cut to the chase, there are several points that I would like to make. Air Canada was originally a government owned and operated company and a little over 20 years ago was privatized. By my own opinion and my father’s, this was the worst thing that could have happened for the line because it unleashed the company onto to harsh Canadian market where the bottom line is everything and the company would rather cut services and hike rates rather than lose their cushy salaries. Thats right, you heard it from me, Air Canada management is a bunch of greedy corporate fatcats. Oh and by the way, I’m supposed to be supporting AC.
But don’t think it stops their, you might blame a shoddy trip on the personality of the flight attendants, well I’ll admit, sometimes they’re a little grumpy, probably because they are 20-somethings who didn’t realize what a terrible job they were getting into after high school. But usually they are acceptable at their jobs and will put in a decent amount of service to your needs and wants. On the other hand, it is well known in the aviation community that along with management, flight attendants are grossly overpaid. Sure they stand up and serve drinks, sure they have to deal with surly passengers, but so what? It takes all the skill of a restaurant server (I admit it is slightly more difficult, but you understand my point). Meanwhile, the pilot’s are pulling long hours up front, restricted to their seats for the most part (new regulations after 9/11 keep then pinned) in the cockpit, which on many aircraft is no more comfortable than coach seating; they are constantly working to perform systems checks, position reports and so much more (you might think that autopilot does it all, but what do you think happens on a trans-Atlantic flight to London when somewhere south of Iceland your airspeed starts to drop off mysteriously (as happened to my father on a recent flight)? You have to think fast and make good decisions. In this case my father and his captain lost 150 nautical miles per hour of airspeed before figuring out that a failing secondary fuel boost pump combined with vapor lock was reducing fuel flow to the number two engine, they quickly shut down the pump, switched to the primary reserve and were on their way. This sort of thing happens all the time in the airlines but we never know because thankfully our North American pilots are properly and thoroughly trained to fly under all circumstances, unlike many Asian pilots.
That brings up an interesting point, while I was undergoing my primary flight training several years ago, their was a flight school North of where I was training that served primarily Chinese students, brought to Canada by the Chinese government so they could be trained and then brought back to Asia to fly their airliners. Well I have (not to be stereotypical, just factual based on empirical evidence) never seen a more dangerous group of pilots. They have a reduced understanding of English (the international language of aviation) and instead of responding to repeated radio calls to delay their landing due to busy airport operations, chose to simply repeat the specific radio phraseology that they’ve been instructed to use, regardless of situation, and barge on in. In once instance, I filed a report for a near miss because while I was taking off and climbing through 1000 feet, a Chinese student, without even announcing his position, had decided to fly directly perpendicular through my flight corridor at an altitude just 100 feet above me, this was an unrecommended maneuver endangering the lives of himself, me and those on the ground. Chinese students also stereotypically only receive the minimum of training before being shipped off to fly big iron like the 737 (which in many cases is an obsolete aircraft bought from the North American airlines and then reused for a cheaper fair, despite underlying safety concerns).
Now you know why they can afford those cheap Asian ticket prices: cheap pilots, cheap airplanes and government run programs that suck money from the foreign economy and put it into low-paying oppressive labor forces that are tired and only smiling on the outside. Someday when one of those planes has an engine failure over the mountainous southern Japan, I can only say good luck to you in your nose-dive to the ground because the pilots won’t be helping you.
Now, back to Canada shall we? Our planes are new, or being replaced and just because they don’t have LCD TVs (poor poor you… sob) doesn’t mean they aren’t good airplanes. All the money that was supposed to let you play tetris instead of witnessing the amazing scenery instead is going into maintenance. Our planes are well kept and have very few mechanical problems compared to foreign ones and I’m proud to say that the last AC flight to experience a fatality was over 25 years ago, before most of the fleet was even introduced and before most employees even worked there. Also, our pilots are the best in the world, bar none. Look at the Gimli glider, the only reason those passengers survived is because the captain was also an experienced glider pilot and knew how to fly a plane with no engines. Tell that to your Asian rookies. Also, even many of our flight attendants, despite their surly attitudes know more about what they’re doing than anyone gives them credit for. In a recent incident where an AC pilot had a nervous breakdown on a trans-Atlantic flight, a replacement crew was brought in to help bring the plane back, the captain refused, opting instead to allow one of his flight attendants, an experienced commercial pilot, to assume co-pilot duties, bet your 18 year old Asian pretty girls can’t do that can they?
So there you have it, the only reason I’m stopping now is because I’m tired and its late, so if you want more, bring it on, I could go all day. And if you say my report is unsubstantiated and doesn’t have any real evidence, well then I offer you the same sentiment. Also, if you want it, I’ve got it, I know this world better than most and I won’t hesitate to cite actual reports from impartial judges. Anyway, I hope this helps settle your debate a little bit. and by the way, I don’t get flustered and angry like many of you do, I just get annoyed at the blind ignorance of you all, so don’t bother trying to get my goat with slander and false accusation because they won’t be addressed, and everyone here can say that it just makes you look like an idiot.

Thanks for reading,
Joe
Joseph: January 23rd, 2009 at 11:16 pm
Oh and I’m sorry I didn’t mention this above. But the reason for such seemingly uncalled for rate increases and extra fees all across the board is because of fuel prices. Many aircraft carry up-to and more than 100000 pounds of fuel and with the price of jet fuel having tripled over the last few years the airlines (not wanting to advertise higher fares before the other guy) pass this off as security/airport improvement/environmental fees as an afterthought when really they make up the bulk of the ticket. Tip, check the “real” price of your ticket before claiming how cheap it is.
MaxPower: January 24th, 2009 at 10:55 pm
Thanks for digging up a post made originally November 23, 2006.

Oh and: “price of jet fuel having tripled over the last few years”, yeah not so much:

Impact on this year’s fuel bill of the global airline industry: New fuel price average for 2009 $62.4/bbl

Impact on 2009 fuel bill -$43 billion Estimated by IATA

http://www.iata.org/whatwedo/economics/fuel_monitor/index.htm

So uh… yeah, thanks for your “knowledge”.
harkessa: February 15th, 2009 at 2:17 am
Yet again the greedy fair weather friend Singapore Airlines pull out od service … Hello … Vancouver 2010 Winter / Para Olympics … Singapore Youth Olympics. Great timing! Like everything in Singapore … its all smoke and mirrors.
cliffy: February 18th, 2009 at 2:16 pm
Allow me to offer a rather crude summary of most of the entires here.

Air Canada Staffs are happy with Air Canada and the standards it offers, whereas Air Canada Passengers are disappointed.

Differences that could be telling in itself.
Ronald J: February 28th, 2009 at 11:35 am
Joseph: Your stereotypes of “Asian” carriers is disgusting and perverse.

It shocks me to read such views coming from a professional in one of the highest-regarded jobs around the world.

Firstly Singapore Air has the best safety and maintenance record and the youngest fleet among the commercial airliners. “Asian rookies” eh?

They have the most comprehensive training regime for their pilots and cabin crew (a 6 month program for the latter) and they hire the best, even if they’re not Singaporean. I’ve had many flights with European pilots and cabin crew that were from Japan and Hong Kong as well. Now that’s non-protectionism.

Judging by your post about the China students there, I’m not sure if you even know Singapore is a country, not a part of China.
stephen: August 5th, 2009 at 12:51 am
Joseph, I’m just curious. While I am surprised that one of AC’s flight attendants was able to double up as co-pilot, does that apply to one pilot-ready FA for every AC flight? I’m sure that was a pure coincidence. While I agree the “18 year old Asian pretty girls” can’t do that, it’s not their job in the first place.

I have to disagree on acceptability of flight attendants. From what I understand from the other postings, it appears that the service on AC as compared with other airlines like MAS and SIA is light years apart and this should not be the case. Any kind of person who is in customer service can testify that customer is king. If the FAs are grumpy, they can jolly well pass their jobs over to the next eagerly awaiting girl in line.

I have to also correct the misconception that “many Asian pilots” are not properly trained to fly. While I acknowledge there are indeed some cases, things have changed quite a bit and I can safely say that companies like SIA have an extremely stringent set of tests and interviews that siphon out only the best that will go on to qualify as pilots.
superguy1221: November 20th, 2009 at 7:48 pm
I think GDAC should stop making exuses. If your not atractive and willing to work for less than you don’t belong in a competative service industry.
Also, I’ve noticed that the international flights on AC these days are getting better. I flew from Edmonton to London and got 2 small meals, in flight entertainment in the seat back, great service and 3 or 4 free beers!
Ocaisionaly you can get a good, young, hard working flight crew on certain routes within north america. From Edmonton to Los Angeles air canada is THE BEST! On a 3 hours flight they come around with drinks 2-5 times, the in seat TV’s are there, the seats are leather and the crew makes jokes, it feels like WESTJET!!!!!! Note:despite its size the embraer planes are the best plane they fly within north america

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